The end of the year is a time when we wish each other happines and luck (among other things). My government is no exception and since not a lot of Slovenes are showing it any love at all, Janša & co. have given themselves a bit of love by making a bit of headlines. Good ones. You know… just to get the ball roling and to start the EU presidency in a upbeat tone. And, seemingly out of nowhere, the following happened
A happy government… The original version from 2004
–The budget is sporting a surplus. Pengovsky went huh?. From where?. OK, so the government claims it’s the economic growth, but I strongly suspect that we are facing a bit of creative accounting here… Perhaps all the money that the government got from selling Nova Kreditna Banka Maribor wasn’t yet funneled into covering the public debt…? Or could it be that cutting the costs withing the government really showed results five days before the end of the fiscal year?
–The Strojan Roma family finally settled for a new patch of land. The government and the family swithced ownership of a particular piece of land, which means that the matter is basically settled. But it took the government more a year to settle something that should not have happened in the first place. A brutal violation of basic human rights.
–The inflation in December is only .4 percent. Which still leaves the cumulative inflation at a record 5.6 percent. The highest in eurozone.
But hey… You gotta be happy for this government. If they believe their own spin, why shouldn’t we?
Believe or not to believe…
>>A brutal violation of basic human rights.>>
Are we again playing here a smartass, Pengovsky? Surely not! 🙂
Basic human rights to a wide majority of people in Slovenia, including the Romas have been brutally violated since 1941. Funny thing is that they have been and still are violated by those who are today screaming about the brutal violation of basic rights for the Strojan Family. It is something of a paradox story like with the liberation of the German concentration camps in East Germany and Poland by the Soviet Red Army. They liberated the camps which only a few weeks after their liberation received a new kind of prisoners.
But of course one could also discuss whether the basic human rights have not already been violated before the Strojan incident. It is not their neighbour’s fault if the Justice System and Police under Mrs. Cerar and Mr. Pogorelc were not in a position to sanction the violations of law. Unless of course if there is another secret law for a different group of people. Those who are allowed to do everything.
>>>>Which still leaves the cumulative inflation at a record 5.6 percent. The highest in eurozone.>>>>
We had almost 10% inflation in 2000 and a high rate of unemployment. Where were you back than when we most needed you??? Sharping pencils in the parliament perhaps? 🙂
@Karel:
Re: inflation: Ah, where I was in 2000 is of little importance 😉 Having said that, you do remember that in 2000 there was a period of Bajuk government, don’t you? I’m not implying anything, just so that we don’t forget this small detail 🙂
But to answer your comment – in 2000 the highest inflation was at 9,7 percent (June 2000, 8,8 % on average in 2000 ) and has been falling steadily until this year.
This is the main problem. Not the absolute number of 5,6 % – which is still the highest in eurozone (no argument there, right?), but the fact that the inflation is rising.
Re: Strojan family
Surely you meant to write “since 1945” 😀 Yes, noone claims that it was all sunshine for the Romas in Slovenia prior to the Ambrus incident. However – what happened in Ambrus and beyond was a government condoned and government assisted forceful relocation. Ethnic cleansing on the local level, if you will. Please refer to this post for detailed rammifications of the relocation.
Pengovsky:
Ah, where I was in 2000 is of little importance 😉
I know Pengovsky. Back then you were among those hm….how do you call them… oh, yes… “high profile cocksuckers”, eh? 🙂
Having said that, you do remember that in 2000 there was a period of Bajuk government, don’t you? I’m not implying anything, just so that we don’t forget this small detail 🙂
Yes, from May to November 2000. I say this to emphasize the information which you yourselve have wrote in your reply and that is that the highest inflation in 2000 was in fact in June 2000, that is less than a month after Bajuk’s government has taken the office.
So he already came into the office with a high inflation on his back. 🙂
This is the main problem. Not the absolute number of 5,6 % – which is still the highest in eurozone (no argument there, right?), but the fact that the inflation is rising.
I am not arguing about the highest inflation in eurozone, although I am more than willing to argue you the unexpected (or not) high rise of prices in merchandise and some other sectors of economy due to lack of competition on the Slovenian national market. Or if I put it in plain language: we are paying now all those years of “national interests”.
Surely you meant to write “since 1945″
No. I meant since 1941. It is a well-known fact that several hundred of Romas have been executed in 1941-42 by the (communist) partisans around St. Jost and near Crnomelj. The latest brochure of the Museum of the Contemporary History about Slovenes from World War II also – for the first time! – devotes a chaper about Romas in WW2, including the partisan massacres. I would recommend you to obtain it, but seeing you are a part time journalist I know that facts are in your case an unnecessary balast in your life, so I will stick with just the recommendation. 🙂
Yes, noone claims that it was all sunshine for the Romas in Slovenia prior to the Ambrus incident.
Oh, interesting… So you knew BEFORE the Ambrus incident that the situation of the Romas in Slovenia was not all sunshine yet you did decide not to lift this question from obscurity and pressure on then government to do something about this?
However – what happened in Ambrus and beyond was a government condoned and government assisted forceful relocation.
Not really. They went on recommendation of the Ministry of Interior Affairs.
Ethnic cleansing on the local level, if you will. Please refer to this post for detailed rammifications of the relocation.
I would be very careful which words do you pick. A family was moved, not the entire ethnic community! When someone is moved from his apartment from not paying his bills is this an ethnic cleansing as well? Surely not. At least until the dislodging is not done by JJ. 🙂
@Karel:
Back then you were among those hm….how do you call them… oh, yes… “high profile cocksuckers”, eh?
Obviously know much more about me than I do 😆 But really – do you seriously believe that I would be writing this puny little blog had I been sucking political cock back in 2000? Really, do give me some credit 🙂
Re: Bajuk
I didn’t say that high inflation in 2000 was Bajuk’s fault – he and Janša were pretty capable of shooting themselves in the foot even without economic blunders. And in all honesty, even in Slovenia it does take slightly more than six months to fuck up the economy 🙂
Re inflation
As surprising as it may seem, I agree with you on that – partly. I won’t go into that save to say that the government was quite happy to please the same tycoons it now accuses practically of high treason. Hey, nobody said that Janša & co. would have it easy
re 1941
Actually, I was just teasing you… The Slovenian corner of the internet seems to be littered with your comments about 1941-45 and beyond and I thought I’d just stir the pot a bit 🙂
I’ll let the “part time journalist” comment go by, as you will have to come up with something stronger than that 😉
So you knew BEFORE the Ambrus incident that the situation of the Romas in Slovenia was not all sunshine yet you did decide not to lift this question from obscurity and pressure on then government to do something about this?
Actually, I did much more than that… I was a part of a group which taught them how to do their own radio programming and advised on setting up their own broadcast studio, giving them their own voice. Furthermore I retransmitted their programming, to help reach them a broader audience. And this included both Romas from Prekmurje and Dolenjska. And what have YOU done?
They went on recommendation of the Ministry of Interior Affairs.
Recommendation?!? I’ll say! Recommendation assisted by pitchforks, bonfires, torches and death-threats, while the police are idly watching? Ever since the ancient Roman times obligations or agreements made under duress are considered void.
Ethnic cleansing on the local level, if you will. Please refer to this post for detailed rammifications of the relocation.
So yo dou agree they were moved and didn’t go of their own free will, do you? 😀
The use of term “ethnic cleansing” on my part was quite intentional and to the point. If I remember correctly not a single Roma remained in the Ambrus community after the Strojans were driven out. So the village was basically ethnically cleansed. Forgive me for calling spade a spade, but I see no reason to be nice about it.
Speaking of which – I’ve no idea in what parallel universe you live in, but in my universe noone can be evicted from property they own even if they’re not paying their bills. You see, this is one of those silly side-effect of capitalism and the rule of law – that private property is untouchable and that this principle applies to everybody.
But really – do you seriously believe that I would be writing this puny little blog had I been sucking political cock back in 2000? Really, do give me some credit 🙂
Do I seriously believe? Yes. Why not? There are some layers of people in this country for whom the world has collapsed in 2004. It was on that year that some of you have discovered your second I. Like you have briefly discovered it for six months in 2000.
Some of those journalists who are called by you high profile cocksuckers (why? Care to explain?) were the ones who discovered the affair with Red Cross, SIB Bank, SIGMA, Kucan paying off Letica and some other things which we mortal citizens would have never known.
Which affairs worthy of journalism being the fifth branch of the power did your colleagues or you yourselve discover in your time from 2000 to 2004?
The only worthwhile remembering story that I can right now think up are the cock-and-bull stories about how Jansa kidnapped loony Major Troha (beatifully written and researched by Mr. Blaz Zgaga), was preparing a major coup d’etat in 1990s (a monstrumn by the journalists of the Mladina), a political kill about presidential candidate Franz Arhar’s salary which turned up to be in terms a very small salary in comparison with some those earned by some other “respectable people” of the Slovene political and economical establishment like for instance Mr. Jankovic. And of course the last but not at least that President Kucan used his personal influence to help Mr. Letica (yes, that’s the same clown who was riding on a horse in front of the of the Slovene military outpost dressed as baron Trenk or something like that) to get his money back from the NLB Bank.
SIGMA, Red Cross, meagre salaries in early 2000s, NLB Bank, SIB Bank etc.
All this doesn’t bother your colleagues and you to make a journalistic investigation?
I didn’t say that high inflation in 2000 was Bajuk’s fault
Oh, really? So why did you then mention it at all? I admire your sense for details but as you yourselve have already said the inflation in June was over 9% and it was a product of Drnovsek’s government. The same government which got rewarded six months later at the parliamentary elections with over 30% of votes. Nobody mentioned the inflation produced by Drnovsek and his goonies from January to June 2000. Double standards? or it didn’t seem important to the respectable members of the journalist corps at the time? Or perhaps the “befehl” from the top was to forget this important fact? Perhaps you know more than me.
As surprising as it may seem, I agree with you on that – partly. I won’t go into that save to say that the government was quite happy to please the same tycoons it now accuses practically of high treason.
Tell me, what would be the response or I will re-phrase my question… What would happen if Jansa immediately after a year or two on power remove the tycoons from the government owned companies? Do you remember what happened when a tycoon Jankovic was kicked?
Today we have Jankovic and Srot are kicking themselves over the medias and revealing dirty details behind the sale, including Srot’s statement that when Jansa came to power jankovic first offered a servile offer to him to press down the Pivovarna Lasko.
A new master, a new wind, eh? hehe…
Actually, I was just teasing you… The Slovenian corner of the internet seems to be littered with your comments about 1941-45 and beyond and I thought I’d just stir the pot a bit.
No more, no less than it is polluted by hysterical comments about the “collaborator” Jansa and “domobran” Bajuk. 🙂
I’ll let the “part time journalist” comment go by, as you will have to come up with something stronger than that
I was almost 100% sure you are going to say something like this. 🙂
Actually, I did much more than that… I was a part of a group which taught them how to do their own radio programming and advised on setting up their own broadcast studio, giving them their own voice. Furthermore I retransmitted their programming, to help reach them a broader audience. And this included both Romas from Prekmurje and Dolenjska.
I applause to all of these efforts of your colleagues and you but sadly this has nothing to do with the Strojan family in Ambrus.
The villagers of Ambrus and the Strojan family did not need a radio station at the time as badly as they needed the justice system and police to do their job. Sadly the villagers grew tired that some members of the Strojan family were allowed by our judicial system what other mortal citizens were not.
Injustice is surely not a violation of the human rights in your dictionary? Or is it?
And what have YOU done?
We offered them an employment. Few accepted it.
Recommendation?!? I’ll say! Recommendation assisted by pitchforks, bonfires, torches and death-threats, while the police are idly watching?
Yes. Would you stay with your family in your house if you would have outside a mob of very angry people? Or would you accept a recommendation from the police to evacuate your family and you to a different and above all a safer place?
Or perhaps as a taxpayer you would rather see that we pay money for constant and costly day and night protection of the Strojan family in Ambrus?
Ever since the ancient Roman times obligations or agreements made under duress are considered void.
Ha Ha Ha Ha! Does this apply also for the wartime period when we were 8according to some) “liberated” by Uncle Joe and his son Josef and laid the foundations for the present independence?
Ethnic cleansing on the local level, if you will.
Really? So they have removed… pardon… ethnically cleaned all Roma population from the territory of the county of Ivancna gorica?
So yo dou agree they were moved and didn’t go of their own free will, do you?
Nobody goes on his own free will when he is recommended by the security services to move to another place for his own safety.
The use of term “ethnic cleansing” on my part was quite intentional and to the point.
I know you did use it deliberately. On a foreigner who is more or less uneducated in our internal affairs this bombastic word surely makes a much bigger effect than using the word “relocation”.
If I remember correctly not a single Roma remained in the Ambrus community after the Strojans were driven out.
The Roma community in Ambrus was/is the Strojan family. The family itself numbers over 30 members. There were a few others who moved to their family like that Cermak who was the main cause for the later unfortunate incident.
So the village was basically ethnically cleansed.
….and gas chambered too, eh?
Speaking of which – I’ve no idea in what parallel universe you live in, but in my universe noone can be evicted from property they own even if they’re not paying their bills.
Paying bills? What about stealing, burglarism and racketeering? What happens in your universe when someone is lawfully arrested by the police and trialed by the court and put in jail? Isn’t this some sort of forced eviction as well?
You see, this is one of those silly side-effect of capitalism and the rule of law – that private property is untouchable and that this principle applies to everybody.
No. This is the side-effect of corrupted, inefficient and apathic justice system and the even more inefficient policy of this country for the past few decades or so.
But the governments in the past have been so wonderful and successfull that they have left to us only and nothing but a bunch of problems.
Story of success.
Some of those journalists who are called by you high profile cocksuckers (why? Care to explain?) were the ones who discovered the affair with Red Cross, SIB Bank, SIGMA, Kucan paying off Letica and some other things which we mortal citizens would have never known.
If I remember correctly, all of those stories were uncovered by daily media which at the time were severely left-leaning accoring to your book.
Which affairs worthy of journalism being the fifth branch of the power did your colleagues or you yourselve discover in your time from 2000 to 2004?
Actually, media are the fourth branch of power (at least that’s what we like to think) And if you must know, I personally prompted minister Rupel into putting Slovenia in the “old Europe” camp (see here for video)before flipflopping over to the New Europe camp and signing the Vilnius declaration.
I can hardly claim fame over it, there it is, he said it and then switched sides. Politically as well…
Oh, really? So why did you then mention it at all? I admire your sense for details but as you yourselve have already said the inflation in June was over 9% and it was a product of Drnovsek’s government. The same government which got rewarded six months later at the parliamentary elections with over 30% of votes. Nobody mentioned the inflation produced by Drnovsek and his goonies from January to June 2000. Double standards? or it didn’t seem important to the respectable members of the journalist corps at the time? Or perhaps the “befehl” from the top was to forget this important fact? Perhaps you know more than me.
I most certainly know more than you do, but that is of no matter – let’s try this: if there was an order to overlook Drnovšek’s rampant inflation (which was in a general downward trend, while today we have a general upward trend), was there also an order to elect Janša in 2004? No, my Dolenjska friend, Drnovšek got 30% in 2000, because Janša and Bajuk did every wrong move in the book in that six-months-period. Including an attempt at a coup d’ etat (see here for details.
Injustice is surely not a violation of the human rights in your dictionary? Or is it?
Injustice can be dealt with in a court of law. Strojans were given street-justice.
Do you remember what happened when a tycoon Jankovic was kicked?
I do remember – Janša called it a mistake 😀
But seriously – tycoon in this case is by definition owner of production factors (Marxsism 101). And neither Šrot nor Janković nor Kordež were tycoons at the time when Janša came to power because the government owned them
Would you stay with your family in your house if you would have outside a mob of very angry people?
As I said – street justice. Unacceptable. The police were there and failed to protect.
Ha Ha Ha Ha! Does this apply also for the wartime period when we were 8according to some) “liberated” by Uncle Joe and his son Josef and laid the foundations for the present independence?
You just couldn’t resist, could you 🙂
Really? So they have removed… pardon… ethnically cleaned all Roma population from the territory of the county of Ivancna gorica?
Yes. You yourself said that the Strojans were the Roma community in Ivančna gorica. Now they are no more.
Nobody goes on his own free will when he is recommended by the security services to move to another place for his own safety.
Exactly. Jews were relocated to concentration camps for their own safety too.
Story of success.
No, not really – at least Roma-wise. But what this government has done was to institutionalise a pogrom. To try to make it socially acceptable and create two classes of citizens. Those who are backed by the police and those who are removed by the police.
If I remember correctly, all of those stories were uncovered by daily media which at the time were severely left-leaning accoring to your book.
Interesting. Perhaps you could elaborate more on this subject. Maybe with some names and titles of the newspapers or magazines in question?
Meanwhile it appears that at least one of your colleague has the same memory as me.
http://mediawatch.mirovni-institut.si/bilten/seznam/14/porocanje/#9
Actually, media are the fourth branch of power (at least that’s what we like to think) And if you must know
In normal countries, yes. In Slovenia, your are behind No.4. Actually I don’t think that most of Slovenian journalists are journalists at all. I comprehend you more like propagandists. They are usually at the bottom of the food chain and need a master to get fed. 🙂
I personally prompted minister Rupel into putting Slovenia in the “old Europe” camp (see here for video)before flipflopping over to the New Europe camp and signing the Vilnius declaration.
Heheh, I am sure you are very proud of this, just as Anton Rop was probably very proud when he heard that he got a special article in the Washington Post -> “Not so fast, Anton!” 🙂
I most certainly know more than you do, but that is of no matter – let’s try this: if there was an order to overlook Drnovšek’s rampant inflation (which was in a general downward trend, while today we have a general upward trend)
Ah… So let me see if I got this right. The inflation was dropping from 19.8% in 1994 to 6.1% by the end of 1999. Until June 2000 (a month after Bajuk assumed the seat) it went back to over 9% and ended with 8.9% by the end of 2000. In 2001, it has fallen down for 0.5%. So we have here at least one up. So technically you are right that there was a general downward trend, albeit a poor trend if you ask me. Under Jansa’s the inflation was falling down and has since May last year started to climb again from ca. 3.5% up to 5.7%, I think. So one climb of inflation during Drnovsek’s reign and one under Jansa’s reign. In Drnovsek case it is a general downward trend and in Jansa’s case it is a general (sic!?!?) upward trend???
No, my Dolenjska friend, Drnovšek got 30% in 2000, because Janša and Bajuk did every wrong move in the book in that six-months-period. Including an attempt at a coup d’ etat (see here for details.
Oh, yes… Coup d’etat… Depala vas… I think that our former president has more experiences with coup d’etats and stabbing people into their backs than our current “notorious” prime minister. Afterall wasn’t he who nailed the last tack into the political coffin of considerably successful, pragmatical and (too) liberal Niko Kavcic in late 1970s, assumed the command over our ship and led us into the 50% inflation in late 1980s. Surely a feat which deserves a couple of re-elections and a standing ovation.
Injustice can be dealt with in a court of law. Strojans were given street-justice.
Why should they be given this pleasure of life if hundreds of rhousands of other Slovenes did not receive the same pleasure of life, including the villagers of Ambrus who grew tired of inefficient police and court of law in the Strojan case?
Perhaps because they are a minority and it is popular to stick with them in today’s time? 🙂
I do remember – Janša called it a mistake
🙂 He called the actual sale a mistake. Not removing Zoki, though he was removed by new owners as Srot confirmed in his recent duels with Zoki over the medias.
But seriously – tycoon in this case is by definition owner of production factors (Marxsism 101). And neither Šrot nor Janković nor Kordež were tycoons at the time when Janša came to power because the government owned them…
Wh… What… So you are trying to sell me here the idea that Kordez, Šrot, Bavcar and Jankovic with his scupolous sons all earned millions of € in a couple of years because the government owned them, but technically became tycoons only when Janša came to power?
As I said – street justice. Unacceptable. The police were there and failed to protect.
Why unacceptable if it worked so fine for us from 1941 till the present time? Kar se Slovenec nauci, to Slovenec zna. 🙂
You just couldn’t resist, could you
Surely we have to compare ourselves with the highest point in our history. The same history which enabled us to become what we are today and enjoy the fruits of our past and present successes. Regardless of how rotten they may be.
Yes. You yourself said that the Strojans were the Roma community in Ivančna gorica. Now they are no more.
You use here past tense? Have they all been killed?!?
Exactly. Jews were relocated to concentration camps for their own safety too.
Don’t talk nonsense. Next time you will claim that when a woman who sought help at the local police station from a violent husband and was eventually – on the advice of the police and social service – relocated (deported etc.) to a safe house, was ethnically cleaned from her own home. Or her husband who would in this case probably ought to go to a jail.
No, not really – at least Roma-wise. But what this government has done was to institutionalise a pogrom. To try to make it socially acceptable and create two classes of citizens. Those who are backed by the police and those who are removed by the police.
But my dear Ljubljana friend this society is already for many years divided into two classes. Neither Jansa nor you haven’t really discovered a “hot water” in this case.
Meanwhile it appears that at least one of your colleague has the same memory as me.
http://mediawatch.mirovni-institut.si/bilten/seznam/14/porocanje/#9
OK, most of these stories, then… From time to time Mag can have a lucky break as well (kidding). But point is that the rest of the media picked up the story and worked on it – despite their alleged bias in favour of the government.
In normal countries, yes. In Slovenia, your are behind No.4. Actually I don’t think that most of Slovenian journalists are journalists at all. I comprehend you more like propagandists. They are usually at the bottom of the food chain and need a master to get fed.
With you feeding us, no doubt 🙂 I guess good old Sigmund could shed some light on this for you 🙂
Heheh, I am sure you are very proud of this
Actually, I am – although I admit that Rupel is an easy target 🙂
So one climb of inflation during Drnovsek’s reign and one under Jansa’s reign. In Drnovsek case it is a general downward trend and in Jansa’s case it is a general (sic!?!?) upward trend???
Errr…. Yes? I mean… what part of the picture is missing for you? A) In Janša’s case it shows no signs of abating and B) Janša wasn’t elected to be compared to ages past but to set the standard higher and he is failing miserably. Except, granted, in terms of GDP growth. That is exceptional. It’s just sad that 7 % growth is followed by 5.7 % inflation. Kind of takes the fun out of it, no?
Oh, yes… Coup d’etat… Depala vas… I think that our former president has more experiences with coup d’etats and stabbing people into their backs than our current “notorious” prime minister. Afterall wasn’t he who nailed the last tack into the political coffin of considerably successful, pragmatical and (too) liberal Niko Kavcic in late 1970s, assumed the command over our ship and led us into the 50% inflation in late 1980s. Surely a feat which deserves a couple of re-elections and a standing ovation.
Of whom are we talking about here? Kučan? Check your history and then come back
Perhaps because they are a minority and it is popular to stick with them in today’s time?
Actually, minorities do enjoy special protection. However, if someone is not happy with the justice system, that does not justify taking justice into their own hands.
🙂 He called the actual sale a mistake. Not removing Zoki, though he was removed by new owners as Srot confirmed in his recent duels with Zoki over the medias.
I sort of expected you to be anal retentive over this. But yes, that is what happened. Janša called the actual sale a mistake, but part of the deal was removing Zoki as well 🙂
Kordez, Šrot, Bavcar and Jankovic with his scupolous sons all earned millions of € in a couple of years because the government owned them, but technically became tycoons only when Janša came to power?
What I’m trying to tell you is that if the company you run is owned by someone else (let alone the government) you cannot style yourself as a tycoon. So neither Zoki not Bavčar were or are tycoons (although they want(ed) to be) while Kordež did an MBO after Janša came to power.
Why unacceptable if it worked so fine for us from 1941 till the present time?
Present? What, did you just wake up and still think this is 1944? Tell you what… In the last 25 years, name one (1) example of street justice in Slovenia (i.e.: the mob serving justice as they saw fit and the police idly watching)
Surely we have to compare ourselves with the highest point in our history. The same history which enabled us to become what we are today and enjoy the fruits of our past and present successes. Regardless of how rotten they may be.
Again, Marxism 101: History repeats itself. First as a tragedy and then as a farce.
You use here past tense? Have they all been killed?!?
Not killed. Removed from the property they owned. They are in Ivančna Gorica no more.
Don’t talk nonsense. Next time you will claim that when a woman who sought help at the local police station from a violent husband and was eventually – on the advice of the police and social service – relocated (deported etc.) to a safe house, was ethnically cleaned from her own home. Or her husband who would in this case probably ought to go to a jail.
Big difference. Your demagogical example asumes that the police acts to protect the endangered minority. In Ambrus, however, it sucumbed to a mob.
But my dear Ljubljana friend this society is already for many years divided into two classes. Neither Jansa nor you haven’t really discovered a “hot water” in this case.
I agree. It’s just that I have a feeling that we’re not thinking about the same classes….