Minister of civil service Gregor Virant and Ljubljana Mayor Zoran Janković
So, today (that is, yesterday) Zoki finally got to meet with JJ. Why? To get back the money the state more or less took from Ljubljana in the begining of the year. The result? 0 €. Yes. Zoki got zero. Zilch. Niente. Nothing. Nada. JJ was even cheeky enough to no attend the press conference, but sent Minsiter Gregor instead.
While Janković had hoped to develop over € 2 billion worth of projects, Janša more or less told him to go fuck himself. Now, I was always wary of Janković’s grandeur, but the thing that pains me is the fact that the tug-of-war between the state and the city will leave us – the Ljubljanians – worse off.
No matter what the government says it is more or less obvious that the overnight change in financing municipalities was passed to please the mayors of 206 smaller (and more rural) municipalities, and to hurt one (1) mayor in particular. Had the government of Janez Janša really wanted to distribute the funds evenly it would have done so in phases – not leaving Ljubljana budget gaping with a € 45 million hole.
I’m sorry if I sound biased, but this is yet another example of this government pursuing specific goals (i.e.: neutralising an unwanted mayor) by changing the legislation in general. I have my reservations about Janković, but I resent Janša for fighting this battle over the back of the citizens of a capital of the state he runs.
65 thoughts on “Give Mi Mani”
This really is a nasty deal. 🙁 What worries me the most (and that’s a quite selfish worry) are the real estate projects. Let us wait and see what/if anything will turn out of this mess. 🙁
Real estate projects? You mean apartements? Apparently some 3000 more are already under construction in Ljubljana…
Where? I heard that they are planning to build them (Jarše, Šiška among other places…) but nothing about the actual steps to realization.
I checked my numbers – it’s 2300 and not 3000. And they are suppose to be built by the end of 2008. I don’t know exactly where, but the bulk of them will be in Stanežiče, where they will apparently begin building soon.
I heard about those rumors. But as far as I’m concerned they’re just that – rumors. For now! I won’t believe it until something will be actually done in that direction. It sounds as reliable as the info that MOL will provide 1 million square meters for building apartments, but nobody knows when and where exactly. 🙁
Well the city council passed measures allowing the construction of these more than 1800 apartements in the last two sessions, with some 500 already being built – you do the math 😀
As for 1 million square metres… That’s not a whole lot, you know… I think Stanežiče covers that
My point exactly. 😉 It’s not a whole lot. That’s why I remain skeptical. 😀
Well, I share your scepticism… But I’ve seen documents for allowing construction of the appartaments, so I buy what Zoki said on the issue. For now, at least 😉
That’s good news! I’m on a quest now. I need to find myself a guy, because it seems that singles have absolutely no chance to lay their hands on one of those fancy apartments. At least that’s how it looks from the last notice of Stanovanjski sklad. 👿 Young families, other families, handicapped, young couples… Grrr…
Well, some people get married to get a citizenship, some apparently get married to get an appartement 😀
Talking about the devil… Yesterday I got invited to a good friend’s wedding. I’m still in shock today, because he’s the type of guy that doesn’t give a damn about marriages. And yes… it’s about a citizenship, because they’re moving permanently to an exotic island in a few months. /me shocked
Well, there you go… 😀 So, why don’t you follow suit? 😀
Because I’m still a bit romantic and idealistic. I’m not that excited over getting married, but totally horrified over the idea of forcing myself to act all gentle and loving and excited over someone I can barely stand. 🙁
I take it the newly-weds can’t stand each other, then? Yaiks!…
Not the newlyweds in general. Just those citizenship & appartment made ones. 😉 Ok, ok… it’s not a must even for those, but I guess it’s fairly common if they don’t get married because of love.
Hmm, now I’m not sure I got the point correctly. Were you asking about those specific (future) newlyweds I mentioned? If THEY can’t stand each other? Because if you did, my answer would be different. They have a wonderful, loving and devoted (open!) relationship and that’s the reason why they don’t mind even though they didn’t plan it at first. 😉
Open relationship? You mean they’re free to have other partners? Or open in the sense of being frank with one another?
Both. But there’s an important “rule”; they’re allowed to fuck others, not to get emotionally attached to others.
No shit… Think it works?
Yep. It does.
Btw… I have a meeting now. I’ll get back to this later. 😉
Whatewer floats their boat… I have a press-conference. See you in about an hour and a half…
… reading your today’s exchange, I’ve finally realised how old-fashioned I really am…
Sorry for using your absences 🙂 to speak up.
Things I don’t really get:
… not allowed to get emotionally attached to others… Now, how do you control that? Where does the disallowed part of the attachment start? I mean, it is feasible that you like someone you’ve just slept with – do you then try hard to avoid any possibility of repetition, so as not to get too keen on other person’s…hm…what? Body, Mind, Ways?
It seems one shouldn’t think about things too much and just go for it. Get the feeling. Just do it.
The feeling. Many people do get carried away by feelings easily… “Sweety, I’m so sorry, we’ll have to get divorced, I think I met someone who makes my heart beat stronger than you.” “Oh, OK, if you say so. Maybe I’ll find someone, too.”
(just trying to get to the core of things this way, I’m sure you’ll enlighten me when you’re back 🙂 )
Actually, I agree with you… I mean, it is possible not to get emotionally attached to someone, but once you’re in a relationship I don’t see any middle ground. Either you’re with someone or you’re not with him/her. Fucking around and claiming that you love your parntner are mutually exclusive terms in my book.
Without wanting to sound REALLY old: having such a … erm… vigorous personal life does require a lot of attention turned towards oneself and one’s partners and to be honest, Id find it really boring if my main concern and interest in life would be me, me, me and all the persons attached. There are far more interesting topics in this world—just my tuppence.
Do you know why Ljubljana had to give away so much money? What for? And is there no legal claim as to getting it back? Just wondering…
Ljubljana didn’t give it away – it was taken from it 😀 The mayor filed a petition with the Constitutional court, but I don’t think he has much chances of suceeding.
As for the reasons: Some say it’s because Janša wanted to screw the mayor and the mostly left-wing city. Another (my favourite) is that money was trasfered to more pro-government (i.e: right wing) areas, leaving Ljubljana to its own devices (Janša figures he’s no chances of winning in Ljubljana in the near future). But the government claims it was done to ensure equal development of all regions. Take your pick 😀
Well, as you know, it is quite popular for other municipalities to claim that Ljubljana has again “sucked in all the money” and left the periphery of the state with its less fortunate towns (erm, also cities) on its own… So it is a well-chosen pretence on one hand.
(Don’t misunderstand me: I’m PRO Ljubljana)
I get it… And I understand rural areas as well. The problem is, that Ljubljana was strippet of at least € 45 million (additional three municipalities were stripped of € 1 million altogether), whereas all the other 206 minucipalities sure as hell did not get a total sum of 45 million euros in financial boosts.
And another thing – residents of Ljubljana finance all the infrastructure of all the neighbouring municipalities (seweage, electricity, water, waste, etc…) plus we bear the brunt of daily migration (100.000+ cars come in and out of LJ daily), plus most of these municipalities rely on Ljubljana for its social services (schools, kindergartens, etc…) And yet Ljubljana loses money and all the other municipalities gain…
Mhm. Sounds rather bad, the whole story.
Last time I was in Ljubljana I wished very much someone would finally set out to improve its general appearance: the facades, the dilapidating parts here and there… Capitals simply need to be neat – they represent the state to a certain degree if we want it or not.
YES! I second that… And now there’s barely enough money to keep the city’s basic functions up and running.
@ alcessa: Feel free to speak up. At least I have something to read when I get back. 😛
I guess I was careless when expressing myself. It’s not that they’re not allowed to get emotionally attached. People really can’t control that. A better wording would be that emotional attachment would not be tolerated. If it stays on a physical level it’s ok. If it gets emotional it is considered some sort of cheating and/or betrayal. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 🙁
I’ve never been in such relationship, nor do I know all the details about their agreement. But as I get it it’s not necessary to try to avoid any repetition. You can do it as many times as you want, the only difference is that you don’t pay much attention to their character, to their intellect. Similarly as people usualy perceive fuck buddies. They are attracted, they feel the passion, but they do not love the person they’re having sex with.
And I 100% agree about getting carried away by feelings. I heard a nice thought the other day: “Nikoli ne zapusti človeka, ki ga ljubiš zaradi tistega v katerega si zaljubljen”.
@ pengovsky: Those things are mutually exclusive for you. But they are not for everyone. There are more but this is the only couple I know that works this way perfectly. And for me it’s precious, educational and interesting to hear from them how they perceive it.
Btw, is loving your partner and having a threesome with your partner and someone else also mutually exclusive?
@ alcessa: Interesting thought. And it seems reasonable when I read it. Although in this specific case it is not so. They spend a lot of time together, care about each other deeply and always know when the other person had a fling. They always talk about it. And they both have demanding jobs and hobbies.
The interesting thing that I learned from them is what I noticed several times before. Men find it harder to accept if their lady had sex with someone else, while women find it harder to accept if their man gets emotionally attached to another person (usualy a woman). Books say that it is all connected with the traditional roles we played. If a woman had sex, the man might be in a position of raising a foreign child. If a man gets emotionally attached, woman might end up alone raising a child. 🙂
Well, I shan’t argue about the nature of the relationship, beacuse I too know next to nothing about their relationship.
As for the threesome: Dunno. I did it once, but the relationship didn’t survive (because of other things), so I can’t tell really.
I agree with everything you two said. I read an article about it a while ago. How people from all over Slovenia go to Klinčni center and as a consequence we have terrible waiting lines. And how people work here, get payed and then take their money (and taxes) to their home cities. So Ljubljana provides infrastructure and many other services while basicaly getting very little from them. 🙁 I don’t think it will have a happy ending if it continues in this direction. 🙁
There will be a happy ending… A revolution is long overdue 😀
Sunshine: Thank you for answering into such detail that was exactly what I had wished for. 🙂 I need some more time to think about it all, to try to imagine the dis-attachment needed on the one hand and the deep attachment (I simply chose to believe your description of their relationship) on the other hand… And things.
I also wouldn’t know about threesomes, but since I got carried away by the intimacy that is the twosome and haven’t come to my senses yet, I need not think about it too much (I am strongly convinced that it is OK for other people to do anything I wouldn’t do, this is not the point. The point is that I am interested in the nature of it all).
And that is an interesting idea, the last one. I think I’d like to spend some time thinking about it, too…
It IS a lot of work knowing you two 😀 😀 😀
Well, we’re more than a handful… At least Sunshine is, I can vouch for that much 😉
Which idea intrigued you so much then? The revolution?
I’m pretty sure you know yourself better than you know me. So if you feel confident enough to vouch for me, you can as well do it for yourself. 😀 Otherwise I’ll have to vouch for you 😛
My guess would be that my statements about reasons for perceiving emotional and physical contacts differently are the ones that intrigued her. I might be wrong though. 😉 She’ll tell herself.
Oh, I would think that I know myself rather good 🙂 But I pride myself in being a good judge of people, so I do feel confident enough to vouch for the fact that you’re more than a handful 😀 Did you notice my careful phrasing here? 😀
I definitely did. The only problem is that my dictionary says: handful (noun) prgišče, nadloga, nadležnež. 😀 So which one is it?
Btw… ability to judge people reminds me on intelligence. Everyone is convinced he/she has enough of it. And so do I, of course. 😀
The first one, actually. It takes a whole man to tame you, I’d imagine… 😉
Do not judge, lest ye be judged, sayeth the Bible. Since I’m willing to be judged, I say “judge on, Pengovsky” 😀
Besides, I’m seldom wrong when judging people. Unless I get my wishes in the way of my gut feeling…
I’ve never dated a half-man, so I guess you’re right. 😀
I would agree about seldom being wrong when judging people. 😉 But I know that I’m most definitely not objective when it comes to me. 😀
Btw… have you ever wandered in how many cases you were right simply because you have not given the second chance to a person (and no, do not try to read between the lines… there’s just some white space there 😀 ). I was thinking about this a lot some time ago, and of course reached the conclusion that I was right the first time. But the idea intrigues me anyway.
Hm… More often than not I was proven wrong when giving a second chance – this is how I learned to follow my instincts…
I don’t remember ever giving a second chance because the first feeling was usually so intense. 😳 And I figured out it’s better this way because I figured out in my last relationship that everytime I had a feeling something was wrong it REALLY was wrong, no matter how much sense the explanation made.
But I just figured out one thing. I use those instincts only when something is wrong and not when something seems nice and promising. Funny… I never devoted my attention to this before. 🙂
Svakog dana u svakom pogledu sve više napreduješ i sve si bolja i bolja :)))
I on the other hand always try to listen to my insticts. Not that I always succeed 🙂
Hehe, good old yugo quotes. I love them! And they come very handy. 🙂
Interesting… it seems we’re slowly getting to the end of this discussion. Hardly and cues left. 😛
If you mean this particular post, I tend to agree. If you mean today’s debate in general, perhaps not 😀
Yep, I had this post in my mind. Debates in general, on the other hand, are infinite. Or at least can be with the right interlocutor. 😉
Hir aj kam hir aj go….
First of all, you are not only two handfuls, you are also both of you a great pleasure to know. Stop blushing, this was not a compliment… 🙂 I mean it.
Second of all, yes, I was referring to Sunshine’s part about the nature of men and women and all the rest above.
I also think “first impressions” are important, not only with love affairs, but in general. Unfortunately, one is not always in the position of acting upon them (like, there are people one has to survive despite the fact that one’s guts may react violently to that)…
Pengovsky, I was just over at Centrifuga, reading about censorship and for an absurd moment I thought “What if ‘I’m going skiing’ is just a code-word for ‘I’m going to get hanged because of the things I write in my blog’) Go figure 🙂
My moosy missy! 🙂 Here she is. 😉
There’s something rotten in the state of Slovenia, to be sure… Will have to do something about it…
@ alcessa: The book that planted the above mentioned idea in my head can be found here . It’s so popular that many people simply see it as trashy literature. But in my opinion there are several very, very interesting facts we usually know nothing about. Plus… it’s really funny. 😀
Got here late and haven’t the time to really read all the comments thoroughly, but *sarcasm mode on* it’s nice to see politics are the same wherever you go.*end sarcasm mode* Although I only inhabit LJ for short bursts of time every year, I find it one, if not The greatest city I’ve ever been. That’s subjective, of course. All I’m saying is that I just like to be there when I’m in Slovenija, even if there are more beautiful places to visit. For one not being a city person at all, that’s saying a lot. To find out that the city is getting cheated out of funding because of a silly tug of war (politicians never really left the kindergarten playground, did they) between two people. As usual, it’s the little people who end up with the short end of the stick and a beautiful city becoming less so (but still having its charm!). An’ thayt’s awl ah gotta say ’bout thayt.
Now carry on with the silly banter I love reading when you three are at it… 😉
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