<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.2" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Diaspora (This Is How Wars Start)</title>
	<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/</link>
	<description>sex and politics</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: pengovsky</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72603</link>
		<dc:creator>pengovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 14:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72603</guid>
		<description>Charlie!!! :D Late as always! How was the detox centre?


Right now I'm much too pleased with myself to be bothered by the likes of you, so let me just point out that apart from the last paragraph your entire comment has no connection whatsoever to the post at hand.

As for the last paragraph, the answer to your question is simple. Diaspora should leave the politics to politicians &lt;I&gt;within&lt;/I&gt; the country. Janša, Peterle, Šrot, Podobnik, Tanko, what-have-you... I think the political right wing within the country is perfectly capable of holding its own and the country does not need politics of people whose only connection to the country are ages past. If they want to do politics, they should come back first, settle here, pay taxes here and then go politicking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie!!! <img src='http://www.pengovsky.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> Late as always! How was the detox centre?</p>
<p>Right now I&#8217;m much too pleased with myself to be bothered by the likes of you, so let me just point out that apart from the last paragraph your entire comment has no connection whatsoever to the post at hand.</p>
<p>As for the last paragraph, the answer to your question is simple. Diaspora should leave the politics to politicians <i>within</i> the country. Janša, Peterle, Šrot, Podobnik, Tanko, what-have-you&#8230; I think the political right wing within the country is perfectly capable of holding its own and the country does not need politics of people whose only connection to the country are ages past. If they want to do politics, they should come back first, settle here, pay taxes here and then go politicking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karel</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72591</link>
		<dc:creator>Karel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 13:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72591</guid>
		<description>Pengy, I see you are again raising up your idiotic head, so perhaps it is time for me to put the records straight again. To start from the beginning....

&lt;B&gt;***Put less politicaly correct, we are talking about the people who fled (or were fled, so to speak) the post-WWII socialism and now feel it’s payback time.***&lt;/B&gt;
I think there are three or four important things here which you have deliberately or undeliberately fail to emphasize or shall I say point out.

First I have no idea what "post-WWII socialism" are you here talking about. We had "stalinism" and "communism". I didn0t see much socialism, but perhaps in your vlosxe inner circle the situation was different from the rest of Slovenia.

Second very few Slovenes who left Slovenia in May 1945 came to Australia. Most of them left for Argentina, Canada, USA and a couple of them even for Venezuela. All of them, including their children and grandchildren, succeeded in their life. And believe it or not they succeeded without any significant help from their "mommies" and "daddies". Or perhaps thanks to their family or political connections like it has been usually (and is still being?) done in Slovenia.

Third most Slovene immigrants in Australia originate from the Littoral and Triest region. They fled from the "socialist paradise" to immigrate to Australia in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. I am not going to discuss here why or how they fled because I know it would be completely useless to explain such complicated strings of life to a boy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and ass. So they were certainly not warmongers and most of them were not even the wartime supporters of the domobran side in WW2, brushing aside the fact that the Landwehr was virtually non-existing in the Littoral region. But all of them were disappointed by the new "socialist regime" which offered to the common people so many chances to suceed in their lifes and equally many opportunities for their children. So before you talk get your facts straight, please.
 
Fourth add to this also the personal stories of some, who lost their homes and all their property which was STOLEN from them by the communists in the first months of peace, when the new elite grabbed everything and as much as it could. I am sure you are familiar with these facts.
  
As for your statement about Australian Slovenes not doing anything for this country.... 
a.) Australian Slovenes are investing into Slovenia (Neboticnik, TUBA etc.). Many of them would have done this sooner if they would be allowed, but I think that topday, when looking the Srot brothers, Jankovic's empire and some other tycoons from Forum 21 we can all get a picture why the market was so closed for foreign investments.
b.) many Slovene companies who have come to compete to Australia and New Zealand have often been helped by Australian Slovenes
c.) When Slovenia was fighting for its independence in 1991 it was the Australian Slovenes who helped to open doors for many Slovene politicians to meet the important Australian and Kiwi politicians. Without their help you would still be   meeting the Under-Secretaries of the British and Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

The last but not at least I don't know why they should not get inolved in the politics in Slovenia. Maybe you are still  living under the impression of the communist times, when a small clique of despicable people (Kardelj, Macek, Kidric, Kucan, Ribicic), supported uncritically and without any prejudices by a slightly wider pool of hypocritical aparatchiks, who were doing those dirty jobs for the communist secret police or simply sitting in the legislative branch of the communist parliament in Ljubljana, where they helped to carve the laws and regulations which denied the citizens of this country their basic human rights and liberties.  

Sounds familiar?

Karel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pengy, I see you are again raising up your idiotic head, so perhaps it is time for me to put the records straight again. To start from the beginning&#8230;.</p>
<p><b>***Put less politicaly correct, we are talking about the people who fled (or were fled, so to speak) the post-WWII socialism and now feel it’s payback time.***</b><br />
I think there are three or four important things here which you have deliberately or undeliberately fail to emphasize or shall I say point out.</p>
<p>First I have no idea what &#8220;post-WWII socialism&#8221; are you here talking about. We had &#8220;stalinism&#8221; and &#8220;communism&#8221;. I didn0t see much socialism, but perhaps in your vlosxe inner circle the situation was different from the rest of Slovenia.</p>
<p>Second very few Slovenes who left Slovenia in May 1945 came to Australia. Most of them left for Argentina, Canada, USA and a couple of them even for Venezuela. All of them, including their children and grandchildren, succeeded in their life. And believe it or not they succeeded without any significant help from their &#8220;mommies&#8221; and &#8220;daddies&#8221;. Or perhaps thanks to their family or political connections like it has been usually (and is still being?) done in Slovenia.</p>
<p>Third most Slovene immigrants in Australia originate from the Littoral and Triest region. They fled from the &#8220;socialist paradise&#8221; to immigrate to Australia in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. I am not going to discuss here why or how they fled because I know it would be completely useless to explain such complicated strings of life to a boy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and ass. So they were certainly not warmongers and most of them were not even the wartime supporters of the domobran side in WW2, brushing aside the fact that the Landwehr was virtually non-existing in the Littoral region. But all of them were disappointed by the new &#8220;socialist regime&#8221; which offered to the common people so many chances to suceed in their lifes and equally many opportunities for their children. So before you talk get your facts straight, please.</p>
<p>Fourth add to this also the personal stories of some, who lost their homes and all their property which was STOLEN from them by the communists in the first months of peace, when the new elite grabbed everything and as much as it could. I am sure you are familiar with these facts.</p>
<p>As for your statement about Australian Slovenes not doing anything for this country&#8230;.<br />
a.) Australian Slovenes are investing into Slovenia (Neboticnik, TUBA etc.). Many of them would have done this sooner if they would be allowed, but I think that topday, when looking the Srot brothers, Jankovic&#8217;s empire and some other tycoons from Forum 21 we can all get a picture why the market was so closed for foreign investments.<br />
b.) many Slovene companies who have come to compete to Australia and New Zealand have often been helped by Australian Slovenes<br />
c.) When Slovenia was fighting for its independence in 1991 it was the Australian Slovenes who helped to open doors for many Slovene politicians to meet the important Australian and Kiwi politicians. Without their help you would still be   meeting the Under-Secretaries of the British and Commonwealth War Graves Commission.</p>
<p>The last but not at least I don&#8217;t know why they should not get inolved in the politics in Slovenia. Maybe you are still  living under the impression of the communist times, when a small clique of despicable people (Kardelj, Macek, Kidric, Kucan, Ribicic), supported uncritically and without any prejudices by a slightly wider pool of hypocritical aparatchiks, who were doing those dirty jobs for the communist secret police or simply sitting in the legislative branch of the communist parliament in Ljubljana, where they helped to carve the laws and regulations which denied the citizens of this country their basic human rights and liberties.  </p>
<p>Sounds familiar?</p>
<p>Karel</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ARF</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72344</link>
		<dc:creator>ARF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72344</guid>
		<description>FYI, Brel kicked the shins of both regions. He claimed to be Flemish in Wallonia and vice versa in Flanders, just to spite the hypocrisy on both sides. A man after my own heart, Jaqcues Brel...
Eve doesn't need a new liver, but maybe he can ask Jansa or Rupel if they have a government to spare, because his ain't really working, its cabinet members of various parties - not in the least his own - rather rolling over the floor trying to campaign for next year's regional elections rather than actually govern. And in the mean time, both regional PM's agree to further hollow out the power base of the federal government if they'll win it. It's as bad a comedy as you've ever seen. No wonder I'm moving to Slovenija soon (if those expat fascists let me, of course :twisted:)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, Brel kicked the shins of both regions. He claimed to be Flemish in Wallonia and vice versa in Flanders, just to spite the hypocrisy on both sides. A man after my own heart, Jaqcues Brel&#8230;<br />
Eve doesn&#8217;t need a new liver, but maybe he can ask Jansa or Rupel if they have a government to spare, because his ain&#8217;t really working, its cabinet members of various parties - not in the least his own - rather rolling over the floor trying to campaign for next year&#8217;s regional elections rather than actually govern. And in the mean time, both regional PM&#8217;s agree to further hollow out the power base of the federal government if they&#8217;ll win it. It&#8217;s as bad a comedy as you&#8217;ve ever seen. No wonder I&#8217;m moving to Slovenija soon (if those expat fascists let me, of course :twisted:)&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gandalf</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72265</link>
		<dc:creator>gandalf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72265</guid>
		<description>Croatian ex-pats were the first to carry out terrorism in Sweden, back during Yugoslavia..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Croatian ex-pats were the first to carry out terrorism in Sweden, back during Yugoslavia..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: camille</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72201</link>
		<dc:creator>camille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 08:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72201</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post! My mother (who left Ghana some 35 years ago) and her Ghanaian expat community also try to be behind the scenes "puppet masters", meddling in Ghanaian politics, and it really gets on my nerves. OK, they all intend on going back to spend their retirement years in Ghana so they do have some valid concerns, but a lot of the "tribal conflicts" that they stir up in their newspapers and online forums has already been negotiated back In Ghana. Lucky for us that Ghana is a super peaceable nation, otherwise all the fire and brimstone that the expats raise from their safe perches (in places like Toronto, New Jersey, and London) would really be explosive.
I agree. Expats, Diaspora, enjoy your cultural dance and dress and bring your "native dishes" to multicultural parties if you want to, but leave the running of the country to those people who actually live there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post! My mother (who left Ghana some 35 years ago) and her Ghanaian expat community also try to be behind the scenes &#8220;puppet masters&#8221;, meddling in Ghanaian politics, and it really gets on my nerves. OK, they all intend on going back to spend their retirement years in Ghana so they do have some valid concerns, but a lot of the &#8220;tribal conflicts&#8221; that they stir up in their newspapers and online forums has already been negotiated back In Ghana. Lucky for us that Ghana is a super peaceable nation, otherwise all the fire and brimstone that the expats raise from their safe perches (in places like Toronto, New Jersey, and London) would really be explosive.<br />
I agree. Expats, Diaspora, enjoy your cultural dance and dress and bring your &#8220;native dishes&#8221; to multicultural parties if you want to, but leave the running of the country to those people who actually live there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Slovenia: The Diaspora vs Croatia</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72080</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Slovenia: The Diaspora vs Croatia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72080</guid>
		<description>[...] With Pengovsky writes about the Slovenian Diaspora: &#8220;You see, people of Slovenia and Croatia lived in peace [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] With Pengovsky writes about the Slovenian Diaspora: &#8220;You see, people of Slovenia and Croatia lived in peace [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pengovsky</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72070</link>
		<dc:creator>pengovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 21:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72070</guid>
		<description>@lisa: Typical... Although Thompson surely deserves a post of its own..

@ARF: Only today we ran an interview with one of Slovene actors who is performing songs by Jacques Brel, who apparently ran into serious trouble for his statement that Flemish separatists were "fascists during both wars and Chatolics in between" :)

BTW: Letreme is in town. Does he still need a new liver?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lisa: Typical&#8230; Although Thompson surely deserves a post of its own..</p>
<p>@ARF: Only today we ran an interview with one of Slovene actors who is performing songs by Jacques Brel, who apparently ran into serious trouble for his statement that Flemish separatists were &#8220;fascists during both wars and Chatolics in between&#8221; <img src='http://www.pengovsky.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW: Letreme is in town. Does he still need a new liver?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ARF</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72041</link>
		<dc:creator>ARF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 19:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72041</guid>
		<description>At least they live elsewhere. In Belgium, well, Flanders mostly, they are a political force within the country, unhindered by their subjective, old fashioned (conservative doesn't necessarily constitute revisionism, does it?) and even false romantic hindsight on modern day society's make up, which require modern day answers to modern day problems. Orf wiv' their 'eads, I say... :mrgreen:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least they live elsewhere. In Belgium, well, Flanders mostly, they are a political force within the country, unhindered by their subjective, old fashioned (conservative doesn&#8217;t necessarily constitute revisionism, does it?) and even false romantic hindsight on modern day society&#8217;s make up, which require modern day answers to modern day problems. Orf wiv&#8217; their &#8216;eads, I say&#8230; <img src='http://www.pengovsky.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72036</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 18:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72036</guid>
		<description>When not in Slovenia, I live in a part of the world full of Croatian ex-pats.  A large percentage of those being uber right wing, anti-Communist and some just shy of straight up fascist leanings.  Need some money for armaments to use against Serbs or Bosnians?  Pretty sure I could still rustle some up.  As you alluded, it wouldn't be the first time in recent history.

Just as I was leaving in the fall, there was a scandal going on because the Croatian Cultural Centre had invited Thompson to perform.  Nobody there saw a problem until the Jewish community questioned why a singer who used to perform a song called Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara, i.e glorifying Ustase death camps, was being promoted by the centre. Crikey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When not in Slovenia, I live in a part of the world full of Croatian ex-pats.  A large percentage of those being uber right wing, anti-Communist and some just shy of straight up fascist leanings.  Need some money for armaments to use against Serbs or Bosnians?  Pretty sure I could still rustle some up.  As you alluded, it wouldn&#8217;t be the first time in recent history.</p>
<p>Just as I was leaving in the fall, there was a scandal going on because the Croatian Cultural Centre had invited Thompson to perform.  Nobody there saw a problem until the Jewish community questioned why a singer who used to perform a song called Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara, i.e glorifying Ustase death camps, was being promoted by the centre. Crikey.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pengovsky</title>
		<link>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72016</link>
		<dc:creator>pengovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 16:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pengovsky.com/2008/05/21/the-diaspora-this-is-how-wars-start/#comment-72016</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;There is diference between maintaining a link and isolation yourself, that’s all.&lt;/I&gt;

Very vell put!

&lt;I&gt;But Slovenes are far from unique in this aspect&lt;/I&gt;

That's what I was getting at in the first place. It's just that this particular letter irked me to the point of writing it up :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There is diference between maintaining a link and isolation yourself, that’s all.</i></p>
<p>Very vell put!</p>
<p><i>But Slovenes are far from unique in this aspect</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I was getting at in the first place. It&#8217;s just that this particular letter irked me to the point of writing it up <img src='http://www.pengovsky.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
